It is often debated in Southern circles if the term ‘unrebuilt’ should or should not be used to describe a Bulleid Pacific in its original form. One school of thought is that if something has not yet been ‘rebuilt’ it can not be ‘unrebuilt’. You might have guessed that if I am honest the use of ‘unrebuilt’ is a pet peeve of mine. Now Hornby, perpetuated by some of the written media have coined the phrase ‘unconverted, to describe the Maunsell Diagram 2005 Third / Second Open coach being released this year. This is I assume come about due to fact that some were converted to form part of the 1959/60 Pull Push sets nos. 600 to 619 but surely in original form they were just that ‘original’ not ‘unconverted’?
I also take this opportunity to clarify a few other things that has arisen since the announcement last week or correcting misinformation that has either appeared online, in some retail stores listings or in the printed media…
Firstly, contrary to at least one retail site and one magazine, the Bogie van B release is a completely new tooling of a model not previously in the Hornby range. It is neither ‘gangwayed’ or a retooling of the now aged ex Triang/Hornby Gangwayed Bogie Luggage van which is a different prototype entirely.
I can also re-confirm, as this has been questioned on at least one online forum, that the BR(s) Converted Maunsell Pull- Push Sets will be released both in a train pack as set 600 along with M7 locomotive number 30029 and also as a coach pack as set 610. It should also be worth reiterating that the driving trailer is a completely new tooling of the correct style 1935 built ex diagram 2403 BCK, as this style had flush style windows and droplights rather than the earlier style Maunsell coaches already in the Hornby range.
The release of West Country class 34001 Exeter in early emblem BR livery paired with high sided 4500 gallon tender represents the short period between January 1555 when she received the modified wedge shaped cab and November 1957 when she was rebuilt. I am hoping that the cab side lining will be corrected from the sample (computer generated) image shown on the Hornby website to horizontal lining that it should have when still paired with high sided tender, rather then the paneled lining as shown which would be correct if the tender was cut down.
I was asked a question via a comment on my Hornby announcement post of last week about the Sound Chips used by Hornby in relation to the release of both a rebuilt Merchant Navy and a West Country with DCC Sound. In case you missed my answer, I obtained the following clarification: the Soundchip will be an ESU LokSound V4.0 with 18 sound functions. Hornby in the past on their sound fitted releases have always used authentic sounds rather than generic and I would be surprised if they changed that policy, especially when recordings from the preserved locos are available. They have previously been developed in-house (which perhaps could in reality be another 3rd party) but not SW Digital.
Although not directly Southern, being from other railway companies, two of the brand new tooling steam locomotives announced did run on Southern metals. The GWR 72xx heavy goods 2-8-2 tanks were regulars at Salisbury on the freights and coal trains from South Wales and the LNER O1 class 2-8-0 freight locomotive number 63789 was used on during the Locomotive exchange trials on the Eastleigh to Bristol (via Salisbury) freight trials in 1948. Last years release of GWR 28xx class 2-8-0 number 3803 also was used on this trial.
Graham,
Thank you for being another sensible soul who finds the term ‘unrebuilt’ and now ‘unconverted’ (oh, please!) frankly ridiculous.
As I have stated before the ‘unrebuilt’ term is superfluous, especially when used as a caption for photos. It’s blatantly obvious to most SR folk what a Bulleid Pacific and a rebuilt Bullied Pacific look like.
For example: ‘West Country class’ is sufficient to describe the locos in air-smoothed form, ‘rebuilt’ can be added when the locos lost the casing, etc.
Similarly Maunsell 1930 Open 3rd(2nd) tells me all I want to know.
You’ll be pleased to know that I hve emailed young Mr Kohler regarding Exeter’s cab lining and he has assured me that my comments will be passed on to the production team. So 34001 should appear in the correct BR early crest guise.
My only fear is that they might perpetuate the lack of casing behind the chimney as they did for Watersmeet and Dorchester, incorrect for the latter certainly. I still wonder that Hornby included such a short-lived feature as the casing modification (apart from 34105) in their tooling, but failed to make it adaptable for the original flat-fronted cab, which was more general and lasted longer.
… and I’ve got an excuse for a GWR 72XX as well, fantastic!
Glenn
Hi Glenn
Thanks for your comment, I am glad that you emailed SK at Hornby, I was planning on doing the same. I am still a little perplexed by them not being able to to do the original cab version on the light pacifics but now in a way I am pleased as it means my conversion are a bit more unique.
I always knew Bulleid was a Rennaissance man but had not realised how early the WC Pacifics were introduced then modified (1555)!
Thanks again for the info on sound chips.
I agree with you on rebuilt WC s and like Glen’s approach.
The cabs were first modified in July 1947 but it took a few years to modify them all. Exeter was one if the last to receive the wedge or ‘V’ shaped cab.
Glad that two numbers will be available for each of the Maunsell SO coaches and also that the Exeter lining potential inaccuaracy has been pointed out. I expect that it was covered by the usual disclaimer carried on the catalogue that the actual model may differ from the initial image.
If ever two WC/BoB loco configurations were missing from production it must be the long deflector varients in BR livery, eg Yeovil early crest and Bude late crest, and the early cut down tender with early BR crest, eg Hurricane.
I have done another check now that listings are appearing on retailers websites, there is definitely A and B versions in each livery for the Bogie B Van but I have not been able to find any B variants for the Second/Third Opens.
I too am surprised that Hornby have not yet released the extended smoke deflector version in BR livery (I have both 34004 and 34006 in malachite with the extended deflectors).
I believe your 34004 is running with one of my spare tenders if I remember correctly?.
I have had numerous exchanges of emails with Simon Kohler over the past few years and I pointed out to him that 34006 Bude and 34057 Biggin Hill might be popular choices of names with their connection to the last rail tour over the S&D in 1966, as far as I can remember he said that Hornby might bear this in mind for an anniversary (I assume he meant the fiftieth), so we have another four years to wait for 34006.
I’ve always thought a ‘before and after’ twin pack for some of the Bulleids might be popular as well. Perhaps 34005 Barnstaple for example, BR early crest with extended deflectors and as rebuilt (the first of the light pacifics to be rebuilt).
I’d almost forgotten about the early crest locos with cut down tenders: 34011/43/65 I think, interesting stuff.
Glenn
Hi Glenn,
34004 is indeed running with the tender I obtained from your goodself. I had refrained from running 34006 with the Stanier tender as I was led to believe that she didn’t actually run on the Southern in this condition other to go off region, but I now have photographic evidence of her running on a Waterloo to West of England express in that condition, I assume as a test, so she would have come off at Salisbury!
Yes Hornby have quite a choice of variants they could sensibly, but I don’t think BR(s) modellers should hold their breath.
I have not been able to find any photographs of 34001 Exeter between January 1955 and November 1957 as modelled by Hornby. Does anyone know what sort of coaches it would have pulled? I have suggested BR Ex-SR Maunsell coaches with high windows in blood and custard livery.
During that period she would have pulled a range of coach types from both Maunsell and Bulleid coaches to ex LSWR non corridor stock some of which was still in use on secondary routes. Liveries would either have been Crimson and Cream and some maybe in post 1956 BR(s) green towards the end of the period and also ex SR Malachite green as the Southern varnished coaches more than many companies so the time between full repaints was as much as 10 years. The Southern region were known to be slow to repaint from Southern Green but quick to repaint int BR(s) green from Crimson and Cream.
The Hornby 2014 catalogue is showing Exeter still with the incorrect cabside lining, is there an udate on this situation?
I’m hoping it is just reuse of a known incorrect image.
My guess and I stress its a guess that they have simply reused the previous computer generated image.