Posts Tagged ‘Kernow Model Rail Centre’

Colour perception, especially with models, is an often debated topic especially when manufacturers occasionally, and some more than others, appear to get it wrong. There can be several reasons why colours on models do not always appear correct. In this post I look at some of the issues and reasons that can influence getting colours correct. I have been constructively critical in the past of some manufacturers attempts at getting colours / liveries correct and often try to get colours and liveries corrected, if possible, and have done so again only recently with some proposed SR locomotives (naming no names but fingers crossed they arrive OK).

Diagram 1530 Bullied Cattle truck in a close SR Goods brown livery

The ‘low’ a way too light milk Chocolate Hornby  Warner’s 20t Brake Van

Getting very much closer, Hornby’s subsequent Warner’s brake van release

A Bachmann SR Diagram 1579 brake van is a reasonable, perhaps slightly dark, rendition of the brown (although the sole bars should also be brown not black)

I will use LSWR/SR Goods Wagon Brown as a case in point; for example, Hornby have had multiple attempts to achieve the correct SR colour. Back in 2016 their excellent SR Diagram 1530, as per my review here, was released in a good, if not very slightly too dark, representation of the SR Goods Wagon Brown but by 2020 the colour on their ex LSWR Warner 20T SR diagram 1543 brake vans, as I highlighted here, was the wrong shade of chocolate. Perhaps the fact that the official name of the correct dark brown colour is “Chocolate Brown” they chose milk chocolate instead? Hornby have subsequent released further versions of this model in a darker version but is still slightly too light and lighter than the colour they used on the cattle truck!

In my day job I therefore, for my own satisfaction / reputation, had to ensure that the LSWR/SR Goods Wagon Brown on the Kernow Model Rail Centre ex LSWR Diagram 1541 Road Van that I was responsible for producing was as close to the correct colour as possible. I undertook a lot of research to be able to provide the factory with the correct paint references, although this is not as simple as it sounds as I will discuss below.

The KMRC Diagram 1541 Road Van in what I believe to be a good representation of LSWR/SR Goods Wagon Brown

Following much historical research and checking many contemporary references I was able to provide the factory with a suitable British Standard paint colour reference, however even this is complicated by the fact that such a historical British Standard reference is now obsolete so not readily available for the factory to obtain! Careful checking and agreeing decorated samples ensured that I was happy with the factory’s interpretation of the colour to allow production to commence.

I am also only too happy to share my researched colour references with some other manufacturers, to try to achieve some consistency of colours for all Southern Railway modellers alike, including for example my good friends at Rapido Trains UK, and they specified with their factory my SR Goods Wagon Brown colour reference for their splendid ex SECR /SR open wagons.

The effect of the matt finish on the 5 plank open compared to the satin factory finished 7 plank open can be seen under the same lighting conditions

Another view showing the effect of the matt finish compared to satin

I did however note in my review here, that their factory interpretation of the colour appeared lighter. I also thought at the time of writing that the finish of the model may have also affected the perception of the colour as it was a satin nearly glossy finish rather than matt.
To demonstrate this, I have now given one of the Rapido Trains UK wagons a simple single spray coat of Testers Dullcoat matt varnish and when pictured alongside the KMRC Road Van and one of the original Rapido Trains UK factory finished wagons the effect of the type finish and its perception of the same base colour can be clearly seen.
I will now apply the same treatment too all my Rapido Trains UK wagons from this batch (and I have also shared the results of this simple change of finish with Rapido Trains UK ).

It should be noted that I have purposely taken the comparison picture under the same lighting conditions. Different forms and types of lighting either when viewing the prototype, for example bright sunshine or a cloudy day, or models for example under warm or cool white lighting (see my post here about white is white…) can totally change the visual perception of a colour. I am also of course aware that you will be viewing this post on different devices and screens that will also create different perceptions of the colour!

In addition to historical superseded / obsolete colour references and paint finishes there are several other factors that need to be considered when specifying and choosing the correct colour.

Firstly, care should be taken when using old colour photographs, or for that matter preserved rolling stock, as there are so many variables that can affect the representation / comparison of any colour. As well as the lighting conditions at the time the image taken the use of different film stocks at the time and variations in any subsequent printing can give different colour hues. Something published as fact, even repeatedly or copied is not necessarily always factually correct and can still include errors or subjectivity.

Another factor to take into account especially with models is that of colour scaling; our perception of colour does not scale and will vary depending on the distance at which it is being viewed and also the size and the area of the colour, for example if you painted a model with exactly the same paint as a full-size example the model will appear darker when look at in isolation. This is therefore also an issue when using a small swatch of colour as an original reference, and this has been the case, in my opinion, with a small number of colours as referenced in otherwise excellent and well respected livery reference books.
Sometimes a model manufacturer will sometimes need to counter this by using a colour slightly lighter on the model than the full-size prototype so it ‘looks right’ to the eye.

Go on try it… you know you want to…

The same loco and same lighting conditions showing the colour perception change due to the lining (and also the black flat top)

It should also be noted that adjacent different colours to our chosen colour will affect the perception the hue, see the example shown left.

This is often highlighted when initially painting a model for example compare a lined and unlined model that uses the same base colour.
For example, a splendid malachite green Bulleid pacific will look to be a darker green until the three horizontal lines are added as can be seen in the image to the left of my 21c11 before and after lining has been applied and photographed under the same lighting conditions.

Finally, one further complication for model manufactures is the process used to recreate the often-complex liveries on a model. This is often achieved by a mixture of both paint and print applications, whereas the prototype is more often than not painted (although some modern liveries are via printed vinyls) . Different specifications are used for paint and print colours. For example, paint colours are usually specified to British Standard (both current and obsolete) or RAL numbers; whilst printing inks are usually referenced Pantone colours. There are often no direct conversions between some paint and print colours and errors can creep into the process when conversions take place. For example, sometimes a paint reference could give multiple close Pantone references, and it can even be the case that when some are converted back, they end up as a different RAL number!
It is therefore imperative that such conversions between paint and print references during the process are checked and agreed at every stage. It is the reason that creating an approved set of livery artworks must then be checked and further approved at the decorated sample stage (actual physical sample not photographs from the factory!) before production. Skipping some of these steps in the process, usually for apparent cost reasons, can easily result in mistakes, such as has occurred with the production of some models in the past and therefore be a false economy.

I hope this little walk through the hues and lows of the processes involved in getting the colour / more importantly, the perception of colours as correct as possible has been of interest, perhaps the first of an occasional “Insider insights” series? As always, I welcome and enjoy reading and responding to comments.

 

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Rapido Trains UK first announced these 00 gauge ready to run South Eastern and Chatham Railway (SECR) / Southern Railway wagons in May 2021 and they have now arrived at retailers.  These new models cover the Diagram 1355 seven-plank open and both the Diagram 1347 and Diagram 1349 five-plank opens built by the South Eastern & Chatham Railway on the same Maunsell/Lynes steel underframe.

Graham asked:  “should this review be written in the style of a Rapido marketing email,?” but Muz replied: “Right! Stop that! It’s silly.” (with apologies to Monty Python).

A group of D1355, D1347 and D1349 wagons from Rapido

A post 1936 livery D1355 7 plank wagon, one of the wonky self contained buffers can be seen.

A pre 1936 livery D1347 5 plank with tapered buffers

The 5 plank D1349 with self-contained buffers

I will let the photographs show  how good these wagons are and provide a welcome addition to any SECR / SR modellers fleet. I have only purchased some of the SR versions, but SECR grey and BR Grey and BR Departmental versions are also available (see the original announcement here for the full list).
Some people, without a full understanding of the manufacturing process and where production and overheads costs lie, might crawl away at the RRP of £32.95; and whilst there might still be other manufacturer’s wagons currently available at a cheaper prices the realistic market prices are certainly changing as all costs rise. The models can of course be purchased from retailers such as Kernow Model Rail Centre at a slight discounted price.

The 7 plank open, later SR Diagram 1355, were the SECR’s most numerous wagon with 2,121 wagons built between 1915 and 1927. The SR later fitted a sheet rail. British Railways had over 70 wagons still in service in the 1960s and the last withdrawals were not until the 1970s.

The 5 plank opens utilised the same steel chassis as the 7 plank wagons, 550 were built between 1920 and 1925 with standard buffers that became SR Diagram 1347. A further 150 were built 1921/2  with the self-contained buffer type, as on the 7 plank D1355 wagons, and became SR Diagram 1349. They were withdrawn in the early 1960s.

The well detailed underframe of these Rapido wagons

All three versions of the models, sharing the same underframe, have accurate body detail, including nicely planked insides and now becoming much more common on wagon releases good underframe detail that includes both etched and wire parts.  They also feature nice split spoked wheels on 26mm pin point axles that run in brass bearing cups, that along with a with a weight of 32/33g ensures very free running.

A 7 plank with the usual buffer incorrectly affixed

On my examples, as can be seen in the images,  a number of the self contained buffers were glued in at wonky angles, but being separately applied parts these can be carefully reaffixed.

An SR Brown comparison under the same lighting

The livery application is crisp and well printed. I know for a fact that Rapido have used the same paint colour reference for the SR brown as the Kernow Model Rail Centre used on their ex LSWR/SR D1541 Road Vans, although this appears to be a slightly lighter but still more than acceptable, interpretation of the colour possibly due to the more satin finish, (and even lighter with the lighting I have used in my studio), on these wagons.

The sheet rail parts for the D1355 7 plank wagon yet to be fitted (along with  another buffer to be reaffixed…)

Another group view of the D1355, D1347 and D1349 wagons

The tooling allows for both taped plain and the self-contained buffer types for the 5 plank wagons. To achieve the 7 plank versions fitted with the sheet rail, a pre shaped wire rail along with its moulded mounting brackets for each end of the wagon have been supplied as separate parts for the use to fit (glue) into position (instructions on fitting is included with each wagon).
The holes in the mounting brackets for the sheet rail will need to be opened out very slightly to ensure a good fit. The one slight downside is that the rail can only be positioned in the upright position, as it would be when a sheet was covering the wagon and not, without some modification, in the sideways stowed position when no sheet was fitted.

A comparison of the same brown… the 5 plank has been matt varnished

[Edit 20/05/22] To demonstrate the effect that the factory satin finsih has on the paint colour as mentioned above, the picture left shows a comparison with one of the Rapido wagons given a coat of Testors Dullcoat matt varnish and brings the colour much closer to the Kernow Model Rail Centre ex LSWR/SR D1541 Road Vans, and therefore looking much better.

The sensible choice of body and underframe combination by Rapido Trains UK provides SECR / SR modellers with three different wagon diagrams from one set of tooling and is an approach for choosing wagon types to produce that Rapido Trains UK are have also undertaken with their announcement in January of the ex SECR  Diagram 1426 covered van and the D1744 ballast wagon that also share a common underframe (hopefully with straight buffers…).

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Welcome to the first of my Westhill Road Ramblings as I think thoughts (or why isn’t that thunk?), yes dangerous I know, to develop the concept in my mind / imagination and start to make actual physical progress on my new little scenic diorama type layout. To read my introduction to Westhill Road click here. As the layout progresses my imagination, vision , concepts and ideas board will be covered via such ramblings posts, whilst more details on some of the physical items will be covered in my Workbench Witterings series.

Now on to the main subject of this post the signal cabin. The original thought in my mind I had for Westhill Road, with its small level Crossing and minimum signalling and only one point (plus a co-acting trap point) for the siding, was to utilise one of the lovely Kernow Model Rail Centre LSWR ground frame cabins.

The three potential options for the cabin at Westhill Road

The signal box diagram for Westhill Road

However upon developing the concept for the layout further and looking at signal Box diagrams for similar locations on the Southern, and having created a signal box diagram for Westhill Road that required a 10 lever frame, I soon realised that such a ground frame and cabin would actually be too small.
I initially thought about using my scratch built model of Hawkhurst signal box that I built from scratch many years ago now, when still a teenager, but feel that using such signal box at this location would possibly also be out of character for a small wayside halt and crossing  location as Westhill Road and maybe affect the balance of buildings I intend to have on the layout, as it will located directly in front of the roadside combined station masters house / booking office.

A cruelly enlarged picture of my scratch built Type 3B ground signal box. The roof is not affixed yet whilst it awaits some final details and a signaller to be added.

I decided to take a look at the idea of using ground-based signal box. The LSWR have a number of different types of boxes, as the design involved throughout the years, small ground versions of the signal cabins were quite common across the network at smaller locations such as level crossing gates and small stations and these could either be directly mounted on the ground or onto a station platform. I therefore settled on the idea of an LSWR type 3B signal cabin as these were used at similar crossing gate locations.

A birds eye view inside the box

A view showing the knee frame

A quick snap showing the effect of the illumination, (a scratch made lamp shade hides a tiny surface mount LED)

These Type 3B boxes were introduced in 1889 and were generally located in and around Plymouth and also on the Ilfracombe line in North Devon, including wonderfully named locations such as Stoney Mill Gates, Vellator Gates and Duckpool Gates. Unlike the earlier Type 3 and 3A boxes they did not have toplights (replaced with weatherboard or any ornamental valances. As these ground level boxes did not have an interlocking room beneath the floor they utilised a raised ‘knee frame’ with shorter levers.

This slightly more plain style is, in my thinking, ideal for Westhill Road as it gives a slightly more general and not to area / company specific appearance. I have therefore knocked up a quick scratch built version of such a ground box, that is internally detailed, complete with a knee frame and each individual short lever, coloured to match the Westhill Road signal box plan,  and illuminated (as will all the buildings I build for Westhill Road). I will detail the build process in a near future Workbench Witterings post before you ask, and although I do not yet have the actual layout built to plonk it on, I already feel of the three options it will look the part.

 

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This weekend 4th/5th December sees the fourth World of Railways Virtual Exhibition, and a weekend filled with entertainment for all ages, model railways of all shapes, sizes and scales, plus informative model ‘how-to’ advice, and interviews with the brands who bring us the models we enjoy, including a in a couple of different interviews yours truly…

The virtual show organisers, Warners/BRM, have introduced a range of new features, including: guest modelling panels answering your questions, and a Christmas shopping segment you’ll not want to miss. Fan favourites remain, including the hugely popular Kids Zone, competitions, puzzles, exclusive interviews and more.

Exclusive content on offer over the two days, includes interviews with: Kernow Model Rail Centre (not surprisingly me with the bossman), Pete Waterman, Simon Kohler and more.

One further interview I have already recorded is discussing the Hornby Dublo release of 35011 General Steam Navigation and my own involvement the project by the General Steam Navigation Locomotive Restoration Society  to restore the full size version of 21c11 /35011 to Bulleid’s original condition complete with air smoothed casing and the unique patented chain driven valve gear.

Also included are a behind-the-scenes look at the 121 Collection, a trip to the Severn Valley Railway, and a visit to the Crewe Heritage Centre, to name a few.

The lifeblood of any show is its layouts, and our #BigWORshow continues the trend of showcasing a beautiful selection of these, created by talented modellers. The exhibits will feature N, OO, EM, 3MM, O, and G scales, with something for all tastes – don’t miss them! For the full list, visit https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/information/world-of-railways-virtual-exhibition

A #BigWORshow wouldn’t be complete without its competitions! There’s something for all the family across the weekend, from ‘spot the difference’, puzzle games and colouring for younger viewers, with a fabulous selection of prizes to win for adults, from a Hornby Queen Elizabeth and limited edition Merchant Navy, to an Oxford Rail modern air-braked Warwell and Bachmann BR Mk. 1 coaches.

No matter your location around the world, our virtual model railway show welcomes you to its official opening on December 4 at 09:30 GMT – just head to www.world-of-railways.co.uk for two days of fantastic model railway entertainment and exciting challenges. Don’t miss it – see you there, virtually, of course!

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Bachmann Europe have continued their new policy of making quarterly product British Railways Announcements and whilst Covid-19 has stopped any physical showcase event taking place, Bachmann announced the new items in a video that can be seen here:

Unfortunately no new models this time around for Southern Railway / Southern Region modellers, after the new O2s from the last announcement, (although I can recommend the new SPA / SEA wagons…, and even I am impressed by the 00-9 Double Fairlies) but I am confident more is to come in the future, remember it is a regular quarterly announcement and all the items announced today should be available during the next three months and not all that is being produced Bachmann for the year.

Work in progress – update (added 04/11/21)

00 Gauge
Bulleid Coaches – These are now at the decorated sample stage following some amendments to the first Engineering Prototypes (see here) , Malachite, BR Crimson and Cream and BR(s) Green, and awaiting signing off before production can commence.

N Gauge
BR Standard 5MT – modified to enable sound fitted models, engineering prototypes have been approved and livery artwork is being prepared.
Class 450 EMU – These are at the decorated sample stage.
Class 319 EMU – In production

The next announcement will be in early February 2022.

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Bachmann Europe have continued their new policy of making quarterly product British Railways Announcements and whilst Covid-19 has stopped any physical showcase event taking place, Bachmann announced the new items in a video that can be seen here:

 

As usual I round up those items of a SR / BR(s) relevance below:

Bachmann 

Following on from yesterdays surprise announcement of an all new Brush Type 4 Class 47 Bachmann have today advised the models in the first production batch: BR two tone Green SYP, BR Blue, BR Intercity Swallow, Railfreight Distribution grey, and Railfreight Construction grey.

The EFE Rail range continues to grow

E85007 No. 182 in SR Maunsell lined Olive Green livery Pull-Push fitted

E85008 W34 ‘Newport’

E85009 W31 ‘Chale’

We see the introduction into the growing EFE Rail range of models supplied via other partners such as the The Kernow Model Rail Centre

  • E85007 SR O2 Class 0-4-4T No. 182 in lined olive green and pull push fitted as she was between December 1934 (when the ‘E’ Prefix was removed) and gaining unlined black in 1941 she was allocated to Plymouth Friary during this period.
  • E85007 SR O2 Class 0-4-4T No. W35 “Newport” in lined SR Malachite,  as she carried between May 1947 and c1949.
  • E85007 SR O2 Class 0-4-4T No. W31 “Chale” in lined BR Malachite with Sunshine lettering, as she carried between May 1948 and c1951

As with the previous O2 releases from The Kernow Model Rail Centre the O2s come with discs, bufferbeam pipework, an etched fire irons pack and in the case of the Isle of Wight versions etched nameplates.

Also new in the EFE range are PBA ‘Tiger’ bogie china clay wagons.

The full range and announcements can be seen on the Bachmann Europe website here.

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The much-anticipated ex LSWR / SR Diagram 1541 10T Road Van produced as an exclusive model by the Kernow Model Rail Centre  have now arrived (appropriately via Southampton Docks) and are being despatched to customers and all pre-orders being fulfilled (but please expect this to take a few days).  This is not a review for obvious reasons, but hopefully the photographs will speak for themselves.

All ten versions of the ex LSWR 10T road vans

The SR pre 1936 livery version shows off the separately applied lamp irons, handrails and window glazing bars.

The BR grey Isle of Wight version shows the cranked step board hangers.

The underframe is fully detailed with brake gear and all pull rodding

S54663 shows its ribbed style buffer shanks. She was the last road in service in 1958 and is now preserved on the Bluebell Railway

A post 1936 SR livery version is shunted at Canute Road Quay

The pre-grouping LSWR version.

First introduced by the London & South Western Railway (LSWR) in 1884 they were later classed as Southern Railway Diagram 1541.  Almost 500 of these were built between then and 1905 making them the most numerous LSWR Goods Brake Van.  Brake Vans with side doors through which parcels or other goods could be loaded were known as road vans.

Ten versions have been produced:

The pictures show the high level of detail and multitude of separately fitted parts including: flush glazing, hand rails, brake gear with pull rodding, step boards and lamp irons to accurately portray a number of different versions of the prototype. These options include alternative buffer shanks with a ribbed option as fitted to some vans including those preserved on the Isle of Wight and Bluebell steam railways  and either straight or cranked step board supports, the latter as fitted to the majority of those transferred in 1925 to the Isle of Wight.

Care and research has been undertaken with the various liveries to to ensure that the correct livery specifications have been met, especially for the LSWR / SR Good Brown. The application is crisp, as we would expect, and includes legible solebar cast number plates.

I hope that those whom have have had these models on pre-order for some time are pleased with the final model.

You can order the ex LSWR Diagram 1541 10T Road Vans on the Kernow Model Rail Centre website here

 

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All ten versions of the much-anticipated Kernow Model Rail Centre 00 ex LSWR / SR Diagram 1541 10T Road Vans have now been manufactured, are on route to the UK and due for the dispatch of pre-orders at the beginning of July.

All ten production versions are shown here together.

First introduced by the London & South Western Railway (LSWR) in 1884 they were later classed as Southern Railway Diagram 1541.  Almost 500 of these were built between then and 1905 making them the most numerous LSWR Goods Brake Van.  Brake Vans with side doors through which parcels or other goods could be loaded were known as road vans.

Included within the ten versions are different liveries from the original LSWR, both Southern Railway variations, early British Railways, departmental through to as preserved examples. The tooling has also catered for the Mainland and Isle of Wight versions with either straight or cranked step board supports (as fitted on the IoW versions) and round or ribbed shanked buffers.

The models are £34.99 each, as the models have now left China the pre-order discounted price of £29.99 with full payment made at the time of order will finish on Sunday night. Details of the ten versions being produced can be found on the KMRC dedicated webpage here.

The models will arrive in in the UK at Southampton, that was appropriately the main docks for the London and South Western Railway, at the end of June. KMRC have included in the range van number 56046 as preserved on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway. that we originally laser scanned, and number S54663 that was the last road van in service based at Wadebridge, although officially withdrawn in July 1958, it survived in some form of service until 1961. It was then purchased by the Bluebell Railway as their first item of goods rolling stock in May 1962.

 

 

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The Kernow Model Rail Centre, and therefore by default myself, have advised that the much-anticipated ex LSWR / SR Diagram 1541 10T Road Van has been approved for production. This follows the careful review and approval of the Engineering Prototypes received last year and the decorated samples of all ten of the versions being produced that were received last week.

First introduced by the London & South Western Railway (LSWR) in 1884 they were later classed as Southern Railway Diagram 1541. Almost 500 of these were built between then and 1905 making them the most numerous LSWR Goods Brake Van. Brake Vans with side doors through which parcels or other goods could be loaded were known as road vans.

LSWR Road Van Decorated livery samples Image

The decorated livery samples can be seen above, (note that some of the samples were only the body assembly). Approval for production has been given subject to a couple of minor amendments to the printing on the solebar cast plate for two of the SR livery versions, the spacing (Kernow correcting the Kerning – a designers injoke) of the numbers on the LSWR SB003B version and the solebar and buffer colour on three of the BR grey versions. 

LSWR Road Van Decorated livery sample SB003H Image

SB003H LSWR Road Van number 54611 in pre-1936 large SR lettered livery is illustrated and shows the correct SR Goods Wagon brown, lettering style and the solebar cast plate that has wording “SR” “54611” an “Eastleigh Works” all perfectly legible. 

KMRC anticipate production to commence at the end of March 2021 (following Chinese New Year) with shipment to the UK during May 2021 (subject to shipping availability) and hope to have them in stock for fulfilment of orders at the end May /early June 2021.

Details of all ten versions being produced can be found here.

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As we are talking Southern Railway catering vehicles it might be worth sitting down and having some light refreshment to go with the read as things are going to get a little confusing and complex!

The Southern Railway even with its relatively short distances involved, when compared with some of the other railway companies, still provided full dining services by pairing a Kitchen dining car with a dining saloon on many of its services such as Waterloo – Exeter, Waterloo – Bournemouth / Portsmouth and Weymouth, Southampton boat train services and the Brighton to Plymouth, and some Victoria – Dover services. They could also be found on the though Cardiff, Newcastle and Birkenhead services off the Southern. These paired vehicles would either be inserted within the middle of longer coaching sets, especially for the through services off the Southern; or within a train made up from multiple shorter coach sets, such as on the West of England line.

The Southern Railway (and subsequent the Southern Region) contracted out its catering services: on the South Eastern and Central Divisions it was The Pullman Car Co, and the South Western Division was originally Spiers & Pond (the LSWR contractor) superseded by Frederick Hotels in 1930.

Hornby Southern catering vehicles since 2018

The R4816 Diagram 2656 Kitchen Dining First

The first newly tooled Southern Railway Maunsell catering versions were first introduced in by Hornby in 2018 and the subsequent ‘A’ versions currently available from Hornby are:
R4816 SR Maunsell Kitchen Dining First to Diagram 2656, No. 7869 and R4816A 7865 in unlined SR Green; and R4817 BR Maunsell Kitchen Dining First to Diagram 2651, with post 1939 / 1939 modifications, No. S7861S and R4817A No. S7858S in BR(s) Green.

Read my review of these models here.

The Diagram 2656 cars were built in 1932 and a later batch built in 1934 and other than the cooking equipment fitted were similar in body style to Diagram 2650. Hornby have chosen to produce these models in unlined olive-green which is totally correct for post 1940s condition.

One of these 1932 built vehicles No. 7864 (not to be confused with the Diagram 2652 Dining Saloon Thirds R40030 Number 7864 with the earlier use of the number being produced by Hornby in 2021 see below) is preserved at the Bluebell Railway and funds are actively being raised for its full restoration see here for details on how to contribute. 

The Diagram 2651 in BR(s) green represents one of the six, originally built in 1927, coaches post rebuilding around 1935 to include the characteristic recessed double doors. There were some slight bodyside differences between these and the subsequent 20 similar cars built in 1929 and 1930.

These catering vehicles would usually have been paired in service with Maunsell Diagram 2005 Open thirds numbered 1369 to 1400 such as R4537 Number 1400 or R4833 Number 1375 in SR Olive Green and R40101 number S1338S in BR(s) Green.

Hornby 2021 releases

The Hornby 2021 range sees the introduction of new tooling for two more Southern / BR(s) catering vehicles.

A Diagram 2652 Dining Saloon Third

[Edit] The as originally announced Maunsell Diagram 2652 Dining Saloon Thirds R40030 and R40030A as numbers 7864 and 7867 respectively representing them original condition in SR lined olive green. Six of these dining salon thirds were built in 1927 and they were in service actually paired with the first Maunsell Kitchen / Dining Firsts to Diagram 2651 that were also built in 1927 and numbered 7858-7863. Modellers licence would have been required  as this Diagram in original its 1927 form has not been produced by Hornby and therefore will have to be incorrectly paired with the Diagram 2656 Kitchen Dining First instead.

The main difference between the two diagrams is that the earlier Diagram 2651 did not originally have external door or the vestibule at the dining saloon end and have smaller kitchen window adjacent to the double doors. The first batch of the Diagram 2651 were later modified to include the end doors and vestibule (although the smaller window remained) these and the subsequent later builds, with differing sizes of windows, were built with vestibules were confusingly all to the same diagram number.

The six Diagram 2652 Dining Saloon Thirds only lasted in this from until 1930 when they were reclassed as Open Thirds and renumbered in the range 1363 to 1368.
[Edit] Hornby advised at the end of January that the models R40030 and R40030A to be numbered 1363 and 1366 respectively to the longer and more flexible usage 1930 to wartime period.
During the war all except No. 1367 were converted for Ambulance Train use during WWII. (see comments below).

Just to add to the complexity and confusion with the SR catering vehicles the Diagram 2656 having been built post 1932 took over the numbers 7864 to 7869!

A Diagram Third / Composite Dining Saloon

[Edit] Four of six, now reclassified Open Thirds were converted in July 1947 to Third / Composite Dining Saloons branded as ‘Restaurant Car’ to Diagram 2658 and numbered 7841-4 . These conversions have also been announced by Hornby as R40031 Maunsell Dining Saloon Third / Composite to diagram 2658 Number S7841S and R40031A Number S7843S in BR(s) Green.

These four were actually paired with the Kitchen / Buffet cars to Diagram 2659 that themselves were converted in 1947 from Diagram 2656 Kitchen / Dining firsts and not yet available in ready to run form. So therefore will have to be incorrectly paired with the Diagram 2651 Kitchen Dining First in BR(s) green instead. The other two were now fitted with 48 loose  2 +1 chairs and classified as First Class diners and numbered 7846/7 were were paired with newly converted Diagram 2661 Buffet cars for use on the reinstated ‘Night Ferry” service.

S7841S, previously numbered 7841, 1365 and 7866, is currently surviving awaiting full restoration at the Bluebell Railway.

Also announced for 2021 are further versions of the Kitchen / Dining Firsts as R40029 to [Edit]  Diagram 2655 Number S7998S and R40029A to Diagram 2656 Number S7955S in BR crimson and cream livery. These would be suitable to be paired with the Maunsell Diagram Open Third R4835 Number S1346S in crimson and cream that was released by Hornby in 2018! This version is still, at the time of writing, thankfully available from retailers such as our friends at the Kernow Model Rail Centre.

I did say it was a bit confusing, I hope this post has helped to clarify in some way…

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